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Repair Questions and Answers.

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 #376760  by coatsy
 December 1st, 2018, 4:44 pm
Steve From MA wrote: November 13th, 2018, 11:04 pm Given how rusty some of the stuff is it may escalate as you start taking things apart. A lot would depend on how / if the tie rod end and sway bar endlinks unbolt from the strut without breaking. You can get that torsion bar and front bushings from dorman (part number 905-542) for about $35 a side. the rear bushings on that bar are part of the lower control arm which also includes the lower ball joint.

I've had the kyb quick struts in for 48k miles and there still doing good.
Escalate is an understatement. I'm full bore into the job. It's gonna take awhile.

Started on passenger side feeling it was the worse, closest to side of road grabs most salt etc.

The tierod bolt would not Fing budge more than about 1/4 inch. Got frustrated and sawzalled the (CENSORED) off.

On to the sway bar, I blasted and torched that SOB for half hour I bet. Grunts and swear words and about 4 cigarettes and two beer and got the prick. It was better than sex when that bolt came out.

Two Pinch Bolts came easy. Torsion bar is out also. Tomorrow just need to undo the lower control arm and the right side is undone.

Praying the drivers side is a bit easier especially the sway bar bolts it honestly considered cutting the arms off might have been quicker.

Needless to say I've ordered more parts, when all said an done the entire front end will be new except the inner rods, may just break down and replace those bushings while I'm in here.

Appreciate everyone's help. I may need more help yet putting it back together but it kinda seems pretty straightforward.
 #376785  by coatsy
 December 3rd, 2018, 3:31 pm
So I got both strut assemblies back in. Here's a pic of the old ones the passenger side was legit ready to snap at anytime.

Just waiting on parts. One question, the tension bar that goes to the frame from the control arm, is it normal to have to order separate bushings for the control arm side? The pic of the Dorman arm I bought only appears to have bushings for the frame (where it attaches at the front).
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 #376786  by Steve From MA
 December 3rd, 2018, 6:12 pm
coatsy wrote: December 3rd, 2018, 3:31 pm So I got both strut assemblies back in. Here's a pic of the old ones the passenger side was legit ready to snap at anytime.

Just waiting on parts. One question, the tension bar that goes to the frame from the control arm, is it normal to have to order separate bushings for the control arm side? The pic of the Dorman arm I bought only appears to have bushings for the frame (where it attaches at the front).
Correct usually the bushing on the other side comes with the control arm. - you have to remove the control arm to remove that bar. make sure you torque the inner frame control arm bolt when the suspension is under load.
 #376792  by coatsy
 December 4th, 2018, 10:58 am
Thanks man, should the car be under load to tighten the tierods and sway bars also? Or is that just for the lower control arm and front lower arm
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 #376794  by Sneke_Eyez
 December 4th, 2018, 2:26 pm
I do not tighten the tie rods with the car on the ground, but I have found tightening the front sway bar endlinks with the car on the ground seems to make for a longer-lasting endlink experience. YMMV, but that's what I do.
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 #376798  by Steve From MA
 December 5th, 2018, 2:02 pm
Sneke_Eyez wrote: December 4th, 2018, 2:26 pm I do not tighten the tie rods with the car on the ground, but I have found tightening the front sway bar endlinks with the car on the ground seems to make for a longer-lasting endlink experience. YMMV, but that's what I do.
Tie rods shouldn't make any difference, when i did my endlinks i torque speced the top one and just left the bottom one snug then put it up on ramps and did the bottom link and control arm, - pinch bolt on the control arm shouldn't mater either - I did that up in the air.

On other cars i've jacked up the suspension slightly with the car on stands until the tie rod end bolts were dead level and it could be installed easily - then torqued to spec - I haven't noticed much difference either way - you'll always have some torsion on the links if you try doing them on full load vs no preload.
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 #376827  by IMSpecialX2
 December 9th, 2018, 10:28 pm
I just came across this post. Figured I chime in Cos I just changed Mine in My silver Special. It was just sounding like the whole front end was going to break in Half and fall off/separate from the car, even when going over the littlest pothole, it was Like metals where grinding everytime. At Only 106+K Miles.
So one day I was at the junkyard and saw this Base M with seemingly all brand new front and Rear suspension, I'm not sure what brand it I, it has "669 P130J1" written on the strut and Monroe 903902 written on the strut tower cups and it's blue. So idk if it's the same or it was mixed in, the springs are somewhat smaller in diameter than the ones that came out (Fatory Original OEM) I believe.. I'm not very knowledgeable on suspension parts.. The ones that came out had the white top plastic part/piece (idk what it's called, I guess it houses the bearings???) Are broken in pieces and had bearing particles falling out of it. The springs we're all rotted, the rubber that the springs sits on (Rubber Isolators??) were rotted as well and missing at some areas.. Idk why they are made this way, are they made to work extra hard or just cheap parts?... My Intrepid has 176+K Miles on and not one single suspension Problem...?

But anyway, I read Snake_eye's post and saw where some guys mentioned something about the suspension/strut assembly Coming or not coming with Bearing.. How true is that? So does that Mean the one I got from junkyard didn't have it? Is the so called bearings exclusive to the Specials? And what exactly is the function/purpose of this bearing? Is it absolutely needed/necessary? Without it will it affect anything? Because I don't even know what I got, I just know it's better than what was in there..
 #376864  by coatsy
 December 11th, 2018, 1:25 pm
All back together. Man what a difference.
I was able to keep tha alignment pretty much the same. Took ER for a good run 20-25km. Various speeds and cornering and its tight. Only negatives are it seems a bit bouncey, and it sits alot higher. Lastly my steering wheel is out a bit but I'll wait and adjust that in the spring. It been a cold (CENSORED) week here - 10 to - 15 Celsius so not gonna bother with adjusting that until I swap out the winter tires in April.

I want to thank you all here that helped me with this. Couldn't have done it without this site. It was a little bit of a stressor getting into it but went fairly smooth. I think the most stressful part was the test run. But she ran smooth at high speed and the handling is like it was 17 years ago. Lol
 #376865  by coatsy
 December 11th, 2018, 1:33 pm
IM Special, just saw your reply. I went with the KYB quick strut. Just swap and go, my whole set up was original so springs were rough and the strut was literally falling apart...Scary to think if I woulda tried to get the winter out of the old. I'm 99% sure I would have had an accident and maybe died. They were bad.
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 #378010  by Phoenix
 March 2nd, 2019, 11:24 am
Only negatives are it seems a bit bouncey, and it sits alot higher.
Curt,
Since you've been driving on the new struts, are the negatives you stated still an issue? Would you recommend using the KYB struts, other struts or rebuilding the factors struts?

How much higher do you figure the cars sits now?

I'm looking to do this work in the spring. Thanks.
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 #378029  by Mottman
 March 3rd, 2019, 7:59 am
Phoenix,

I also did the KYB QUICK-STRUTS and to be honest, I don't like them at all.

( A ) the car sits very high after installation ( supposedly this is normal for the first
50 - 60 miles. Then the struts settle down = lower to " normal " ride height )
Seems to be the case with any new quick-struts setup.

A bit of advice,
this higher than normal ride will throw camber and toe alignment
off so bad you will need to add camber-bolts,
adjust camber and toe by eye
( use a level against the wheels for camber, Use a straight-edge against the
wheels to set toe )
This wont get the alignment perfect. Just close enough to make the car
stable enough to be safe to drive.
Then drive the car 60 - 100 miles and THEN get a real alignment.

Note that I emphasize a REAL ALIGNMENT
( See some of my past posts regarding this issue. )

( B ) I have had em in for a while now and the car still rides too high.

( C ) The car RIDES ok over bumps but feels like it has lost some of it's
highway speed and cornering stability.
Keep in mind DARKFIRE originally had PHG.
I even added a SPECIAL EDITION rear sway-bar. This helped somewhat
but stability is not as good as before.

( D ) the rear KYB QUICK-STRUTS make a horrible racket in colder weather
Double checking / re-tightening all the fasteners has not helped.
I honestly think all the noise is coming from the poor fitting strut bellows
( If you see the KYB QUICK-STRUTS in person you will easily understand
what I mean )

I am so unhappy with this setup I have already got a coil-spring compressor
and started pulling the original springs and upper-mounts off my original
struts and have priced up having the original springs shot-peened and
powder-coated.
When the weather breaks. I am going to pull everything apart and mix-n-match
KYB struts with original springs, refurbished original rear mounts, bellows and
jounce-bushings and rubber or pollybushings isolators and see how that works
out.
All this work is a pain ( + costs ). But I am NOT going to tolerate the car like this.

My advice, if your 300M has PHG and you like it's stability and how it handles,
DON'T USE QUICK-STRUTS, NOT EVEN KYBs !
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 #378030  by Mottman
 March 3rd, 2019, 8:36 am
IMSpecialX2,

Sorry Im a little late seeing you'r post.
From what you describe of these struts you found in the U-PULL

They sound like MONROE QUICK-STRUTS and one of them
already has a bad bearing that is falling apart
( Common issue with MONROE QUICK-STRUTS )

One thing you need to understand, ALL LH cars came with
bearings in the front upper mounts, not just SPECIAL EDITIONS.
That bearing is necessary for the front coil-springs to turn with the
strut. Otherwise the spring will force the steering back to straight.
If you see bearing-balls falling out of the upper mount, that bearing
( and maybe the upper mount ) needs to be replaced.
Once the bearing fails 100% you will very likely lose control of the car
( it will become incredibly hard or impossible to steer ).

This is all due to aftermarket mfgrs. trying to use the same upper-mount
for both sides of the car. ( Cutting costs )
Chrysler is very adamant that each side requires a different mount.
And this is why most aftermarket QUICK-STRUTS have
upper mount or bearing failures. ( I think its usually the left side )

When these folks talk about the mounts coming with or without the bearing
they mean.
At one time CHRYSLER used to sell the upper mount with the bearing
included as an assembly.
But then they changed to selling them separately.

I just bought a set of front upper mounts from ROCKAUTO.
They did not come with bearings.

Some of the club members have had good luck replacing the failure-prone
aftermarket upper mount with a CORRECT SIDE OEM upper-mount.

Hope this helps clear up any confusion.
Again, sorry I didnt see you'r post ealier.

Brian.

LOUDER THAN GOD'S REVOLVER AND TWICE AS SHINY !
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 #378033  by Phoenix
 March 3rd, 2019, 12:49 pm
Hi Mottman,
That's a lot of great information!! Thank you!!

I still have the OEMs in the car and am getting that horrible crunching sound when it really gets cold and sounds like the coil is twisting and breaking free. The strut bolt on top of the strut tower has rusted pretty badly sitting in that stupidly designed water bowl. Not even a hex bolt anymore. Same on both sides. I just hope this isn't too dangerous to drive right now as it too cold to work on it.

I certainly wouldn't mind rebuilding the OEMs but have no experience there or knowledge of the right parts to get. I've browsed thru many of the posts here but it's too much varying info and possibly old info.

When you figure out your path with your rebuild of the OEMs I'd like to hear all about it.
 #378034  by dcsally97
 March 3rd, 2019, 1:24 pm
I used the KYB strut plus units front and rear on my car. I also replaced the end links with Moog end links and the stabilizer bar bushings Moog as well. The only noises I have had are from the extreme cold and the upper 2 coils rubbing in the front. I put some rubber hose in between them to quiet it down. All in all they aren't bad.
 #378075  by coatsy
 March 6th, 2019, 10:36 am
Well I have just under 5k since my swap. The car has settled a bit. (not as high)
It corners well and is like new over bumps etc. I do have an annoying squeak sometimes when going over big bumps like the speed reducers.. Spring is coming so will be taking Winter tires off soon to do full inspection. Overall I'm happy with the set up I went with. I was definitely worried at first as it looked like (CENSORED) (sitting so high)

I have no ill effects with regard to alignment, I eyed and measured, she'll run a mile or more dead straight at 80km/hr.. my steering wheel is off a bit which I don't care about to much. Pissed the wife off but I told her to drive her own car lol.