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Repair Questions and Answers.

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 #271405  by MY300M
 
Folks,

Just when I've got my overheating problem finally fixed, another problem! :(

Now, my 2003 is starting to act up when starting. Sometimes it takes long cranks while other times, it starts right up.

I've read the forum and changed out the crank sensor with OEM a few days ago. At first, I thought my starting woes were gone -- but no such luck.

Once the car starts, no problems as the car runs and accelerates great! No CEL or diagnostic codes....

Should I change out the CAM sensor?

What else should I be looking at?

As usual, your collective wisdom and insight would be much appreciated. In the mean time, I'll continue searching this forum for possible solutions....as well as the FSM...
User avatar
 #271407  by grayslater
 
Are you able to do the "key dance" and supply us with any codes? I haven't seen a cam sensor issue with a failure to start without a code.
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 #271414  by MY300M
 
"key dance" ? Is this something that is done in lieu of an OBD scanner? My scanner indicates no codes...
User avatar
 #271415  by grayslater
 
MY300M wrote:"key dance" ? Is this something that is done in lieu of an OBD scanner? My scanner indicates no codes...
Yes, you can obtain most every code via the key dance. More specific codes like for the tranny however cannot be obtained this way.
User avatar
 #271498  by MY300M
 
...just so I understand, do I need to do the "key dance" even if I have a scanner?

Currently, my scanner shows no codes...
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 #271500  by grayslater
 
MY300M wrote:...just so I understand, do I need to do the "key dance" even if I have a scanner?

Currently, my scanner shows no codes...
Nope. Just a method of obtaining codes for those who don't have a scanner.
 #271516  by TSSM
 
I wonder if you have an intermittent fuel line pressure issue...
User avatar
 #271778  by MY300M
 
Update

Okay folks, I've got some additional info that may (or may not) help...

If I stick the key in the ignition and go to start right away...it cranks and cranks and will finally catch...

If I stick the key in the ignition, go to ON (the position when the dash indicator lights are on) wait for a second, and then start...it starts right away...and once running, the car runs great.

This happens ALL the time.

Could it be a fuel line pressure issue? If it were, I would think I'd have problems while driving, not just starting...

Thoughts?
User avatar
 #271790  by Bill Putney
 
Possibly a mild case of injector leakdown or fuel pump pressure regulator or check valve leak down. You might try Techron or Sea Foam in the next couple of tanks of fuel to see if it clears it up.
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 #271886  by MY300M
 
Update

CEL came on the other day...I was expecting my typical P0440 DTC, but instead I got P0340 Camshaft Sensor (attached the scanner results). To my surprise, the scanner summary did NOT include the description "misfire" that I remember seeing...and...the CEL was reported OFF when is was actually ON.

Anyway, doing a search on this forum, it seemed that P0340 was a result of engine stall, jerking, etc...However, I was wondering if this could be the root cause of my starting issue with the long cranks?

Furthermore, since the car has been running fine, I wonder if P0340 is a bogus code and not real....

Thoughts?
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 #271887  by MY300M
 
...the attachment...didn't know PDF was not accepted....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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 #271894  by 300maximilien
 
Install an OEM cam sensor only
User avatar
 #271914  by FIREM
 
I would recommend changing both cam amd crank sensors with OEM.
Crank sensor is used for starting, cam sensor " takes over" above 2500 for run.
 #272125  by 01M4ME
 
My car with 102,000 kms is at the shop being repaired as we speak due to the exact same symptoms. My mechanic said it is the check vavle at the fuel pump. Hope this solves the problem and will get my car back later today.
 #272126  by tinman
 
"Check valve at the fuel pump?" I haven't heard of that one. Is it incorporated within the fuel pump and are you changing out the entire fuel pump or just the "check valve" (that I did not know existed as a separate item)?
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 #272130  by Bill Putney
 
tinman wrote:"Check valve at the fuel pump?" I haven't heard of that one. Is it incorporated within the fuel pump and are you changing out the entire fuel pump or just the "check valve" (that I did not know existed as a separate item)?
Bill Putney wrote:Possibly a mild case of injector leakdown or fuel pump pressure regulator or check valve leak down. You might try Techron or Sea Foam in the next couple of tanks of fuel to see if it clears it up.
Yes Paul - there is a Santa Clause - err - I mean a check valve in or at the fuel pump (my guess is it's part of the fuel pump). Otherwise when the car was not running, the fuel rail would empty itself back into the fuel tank. Also, as my previous post states, the pressure regulator could also drainback if leaking. Probably the two possibilities are impossible to distinguish, but that isn't a problem since the whole module would have to be replaced in either case.

Hopefully Andrew's mechanic has not jumped to conclusions and has ruled out leaking fuel injector. *THAT* you can disintinguish from raw fuel smell once the engine starts (from raw fuel having been leaked into a cylinder). Again, I would try the Techron or Sea Foam before doing anything else - it *could* fix any of the 3 possibilities. If that doesn't fix it, you're not out too much $$.
 #272136  by tinman
 
I figured that the check valve was incorporated in(side) the fuel pump, i.e., the fuel pump is a complete assembly including the check valve along with the strainer. I was questioning the separate line item of a "check valve." The fuel rail leak down is a separate issue with the leaky injector issue.

For the purpose of discussion (and education), if the injectors did not leak and were therefore "airtight" when shut off, would the fuel leak/drainback out of the fuelrail?
 #272148  by 01M4ME
 
The entire pump assembly is being replaced due to the fuel draining back to the tank as Bill Putney said. Before i gave the go-ahead on this I asked about the injectors and he assured me that he checked and the injectors and i even had him put it on paper for the quote on the pump assembly repacement. Havn't got the car back yet but will shortly. Thanks and will advise
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 #272161  by Bill Putney
 
We'll be waiting to hear the results, Andrew.
tinman wrote:I figured that the check valve was incorporated in(side) the fuel pump, i.e., the fuel pump is a complete assembly including the check valve along with the strainer. I was questioning the separate line item of a "check valve."...
If I had said "The fuel pump may be leaking back into the tank" w/o mentioning a check valve, people would probably be confused.
For the purpose of discussion (and education), if the injectors did not leak and were therefore "airtight" when shut off, would the fuel leak/drainback out of the fuelrail?
Good question. If 'no', then why would thy waste money on a check valve - or is it extra insurance in case an injector *is* leaking slightly? I suspect the engineers are not counting on a perfectly leak-free system, else they would count on the system still being pressurized after 2 days of sitting and not run the pump for a second or so when the key was first turned to 'Run'. "Normal" is likely something less than a perfect seal, but less leaking than a 1 second burst of the fuel pump can compensate for after sitting for a day. It's all statistics. :)
 #272201  by tinman
 
Thanks, Bill.

As for the check valve being incorporated into the fuel pump, you are correct as confusion (including myself most probably) would have reigned had you not made it a more detailed comment detailing the "check valve" as a line item.

As for the "drainback" in an "airtight" system, I would agree with your comments. A redundant system is always better, and in this case it is warranted.

Appreciate your comments.